Because they are muslims
Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 6:38 am
Recently i accidently got engaged with few non muslims from acorss the border who had been discussing things which been discussing since ages due to lack of knowledge and confusion.A friend of mine forwarded me this mail which i think is relevent and answer from my side to such people.
Why a Jew can grow his beard in order to practice his faith
But when Muslim does the same, he is an extremist and terrorist!
Why a nun can be covered from head to toe in order to devote herself to God
But when Muslimah does the same she oppressed
When a western women stays at home to look after her house and kids she is respected because of sacrificing herself and doing good for the household?
But when a Muslim woman does so by her will, they say, “she needs to be liberated”!
When a child dedicates himself to a subject he has potential.
But when he dedicates himself to Islam he is hopeless!
Any girl can go to university wearing what she wills and have her rights and freedom?
But when Muslimah wears a Hijab they prevent her from entering her university!
When someone drives a perfect car in a bad way no one blames the car.
But when any Muslim makes a mistake or treats people in a bad manner - people say “Islam is the reason”!
So a simple question from all insane non-muslims and called liberal muslims,why only Islam?why generalising things on basis of acts of individuals,will anyone raise finger on sikh who keeps beard too,will anyone refresh that how sikhs showed their extreemism at the time of partition?Just let me know.
Tagged: islam,muslims,terrorism,anti islam,Chritianity,religion, war on terrorism
Categories: Everything
on April 18th, 2006 at 1:06 PM
”So a simple question from all insane non-muslims and called liberal muslims,why only Islam?”
Since I am very much sane, how do you expect me to reply here?:)
Anyways, right now a little busy. Will get back to you.
tc
And btw, Keshi is not from across the border, she is from Sri Lanka.
on April 18th, 2006 at 6:03 PM
Yes i categorized non-muslims because I personally know many muslims who dont relate every evil thing with Islam and ignore evils in their own society.They dont see religion from the eyes of individuals and dont jump into conclusion,for me such people are more respetable than sick people of my own religion.
I dont want to comment about you since I dont know you at all.
Thanks for letting me know about Keshi,though its irrelevent for me:)
take care
on April 20th, 2006 at 11:34 AM
That was great! I got shivers reading it.
peace,
core
on April 25th, 2006 at 10:09 PM
Pop Quizz hot shot:
1) Why a Jew can grow his beard in order to practice his faith But when Muslim does the same, he is an extremist and terrorist!
- What has a Jew got to do with this? You could say why can people who are members of a moustache growing fan club be allowed to grow moustache’s when muslims are targeted becuase they grow theirs.
This is an unfortunate by-product of the times we live in. Those who have “hijacked” your faith by killing in the name of it have prejudiced people against it. This is wrong but it is also human nature. It is pretty easy to pick out a muslim from a crowd of people when they have such identifiable markings. I’m not saying they shouldn’t grow beards or that it is acceptable that they are racially profiled, but human nature being what it is and in the times we live - this is going to happen. It is not that a Jew is let away with it and and a muslim isn’t.
2) Why a nun can be covered from head to toe in order to devote herself to God
A nun - in case you hadn’t noticed is not the whole of western womenhood…
You are talking about all Muslim women wearing these clothes as opposed to a sub-section for whom for want of a better word are proctising their profession and are in uniform.
Nuns don’t always wear their habbit all day. In fact, most contemporary nuns don’t wear it at all as they feel it separates them from the people they want to connect with. Also - they have the choice to wear this. I challenge you to prove to me that it is all of the Muslim women’s free and absolute will to wear what they wear without any fear of retribution if they didn’t conform.
3) When a western women stays at home to look after her house and kids she is respected because of sacrificing herself and doing good for the household?
A western woman stays at home by her own choosing. As above, it is institutionalised in a muslim woman’s tradition for her to HAVE to stay at home. I am obviously gerneralising here and am speaking regarding the most harsh of muslim regimes - but the fact that this exists has to be recognised and accepted.
4) When a child dedicates himself to a subject he has potential.
Behave yourself! - I’ve never read so much drivel. Nothing wrong with dedicating yourself to your religion so long as it is YOUR CHOICE.
5) Any girl can go to university wearing what she wills and have her rights and freedom?
Yeah like piercings are infringing on the separation of church and state - Take your blinkers off here and see it for what it is.
6)When someone drives a perfect car in a bad way no one blames the car. But when any Muslim makes a mistake or treats people in a bad manner - people say “Islam is the reason”!
Get over yourself and go do some good deeds then - reclaim what was taken away from you - your good name. What a rediculous comment to make avout someone driving a perfect car. Literary genius there my friend.
Good luck!
on April 25th, 2006 at 10:58 PM
1) I didn’t know that when a Muslim grows a beard that means he is an extremist and terrorist. I did know that the Taliban mandated beards and that Afghan barbers were very busy shaving them off after the liberation.
2) As I understand it, a nun dons her “habit” out of choice; no one is going to stone her or throw acid at her if she does not do so.
3) Umm, isn’t it the MAN who needs to be liberated if the wife is at home all the time?
4) The Muslim child pictured is to young to dedicate himself to any religion.
5) I haven’t heard of such a case. Enlighten me.
6) The implicit assumption is that Islam is a “perfect” religion. Worshippers of other faiths take exception to this. When Muslims engage in a “bad manner” in the name of Islam without contradiction or opposition by their co-religionists, why shouldn’t non-Muslims blame Islam, rather than the individual?
on April 26th, 2006 at 1:00 AM
@Anon:before preaching /lecturing me,preach yourself to be brave enough to disclose your name.If you have balls,comeup with your identity otherwise i am least intrested to answer to a person who is not brave enough to use His/her name while arguing something.Its not i cant answer you,its just so stupid to reply a *wall*.if you have balls,do get .
back to me *smirk*
@Solomon:thanks for visiting:
1)you might not know but yes most of west specially in US,a beared man is most suspicious than someone else if he belongs to a muslim state.few years back an Indian sikh was arrested because he had long beared and an Asian,for Ameircans he was like *osama*,crap!
2)Noone stone or punish muslim woman who wears hijab,these are just news spread by ppl from your religon and others.If some muslim does its his own act,not related with islam.I can comeup with examples of jewish extreemism as well.Not difficult at all.
3)I agree with you,no relation with religion but yes west people dont miss chance to relate any evil things with Islam.I am thankful of them.
4)you will not preach your child to go mosque or say Salat ,rather you would ask him to follow what your forefathers taught you.When you teach something to your kid,its Ok,whats wrong if a religion is taught to a *kid*?when science can be taught to him,why nor religion?
5)Banning of scarf is popular case.Scarf is part of dressing,when a woman can wear ornaments or make tatoos on her body with her will,why a woman who wears scarf with her OWN will is banned?hypocricy,right?
6)you guys try your best to advertise your Religion as the only TRUE religon on earth and reject both islam and christianity,whats wrong if your opponent do same?What i have mostly seen that its non-muslims who relate every individual evil act of a muslim with Islam.While i woudnt hear same thing in case of christianity or judaism.Why is it like that?re you guys angels?
on April 26th, 2006 at 7:10 AM
1) Well, I don’t make that association. Here, the bearded guys are usually rabbis and Muslims are clean-shaven. The only turban I see is on the head of a rather elegant-looked grey-clad fellow - I think he’s a Sikh. Don’t know why anyone would arrest him.
3) west people dont miss chance to relate any evil things with Islam.I am thankful of them.
Sorry, I don’t understand. I must make an effort to learn Urdu…
4) To blindly worship the religion of one’s ancestors is repugnant to me. Both Abraham and Muhammed thought so, too. Yes, we teach our children. But they cannot “dedicate” themselves until they are adult enough to make such decisions.
5) Banning women from wearing scarves? Maybe on an escalator, out of safety concerns. I’ve never heard of it otherwise.
6)you guys try your best to advertise your Religion as the only TRUE religon on earth and reject both islam and christianity
Quite wrong. Judaism doesn’t work that way. Other religions aren’t necessarily “false”. Indeed, some rabbis actually forbid certain types of teaching to Muslims on the grounds that it may shake their faith!
I think only polytheistic religions are considered invalid. (Some argue that Catholicism is polytheism.) So Muslims who trumpet Islam as the TRUE religion aren’t doing the same thing as Jews at all.
What i have mostly seen that its non-muslims who relate every individual evil act of a muslim with Islam.
Actually we bend over backwards not to do so. Then some wacko will drive a car into twenty people and claim he did it to teach us Islam. Or Bin Laden claims he killed 3000 people out of Islam. Non-muslims don’t have to do any “relating”; Muslims do that for us.
While i woudnt hear same thing in case of christianity or judaism.Why is it like that?re you guys angels?
I don’t believe that every person or group of people are equally bad or equally good. Do you believe the inmates at the local prison are your moral superiors? So maybe it is true, then, that today Christians and Jews are closer to angels than Muslims are.
Let’s be clear: both Judaism and Christianity went through nasty violent stages of utter intolerance. That is currently in the past, or what does exist is in a far lesser degree than Islam today. The difference is due to (1) collective memory of the catastrophes that are part of such bigotry, and (2) the West’s liberal democratic tradition that, in theory, seeks to permit as wide a range of views as possible.
When such bigotry does occur, the West is certainly better at stopping it than Islam is. Who stopped Milosevic from killing Muslims in Kosovo? The U.S. and its NATO allies. No country is more pro-Muslim than the United States of America.
The Big Pharaoh believes Muslims must pass through the same phases before they can mature as well. Problem is, in the age of modern weapons such direct learning would be more hideous than most Muslims could ever imagine. For Muslims were mostly spared from the role of victims in the great genocidal wars of the twentieth century.
(Why did the West move to liberal democracy while the rest of the world remained stagnant? Possibly because our monarchs and dictators weren’t as clever as those elsewhere, or were more desparate for money.)
on April 26th, 2006 at 3:53 PM
Listen here Adnan - what has my name got to do with my opinions and your inclination to respond to them? Rather than a lack of balls I attribute it to a lack of time. I actually came across your blog on programming related issues and as such sent off my “preaching/lecturing” in the heat of the moment and under pressure to finish other work.
Now… back to the issue at hand. You really have to drop this whole religious BS. My opinions are mine alone and not influenced by my religion. When you become enlightened enough to realise that not all “Westerners” are crusading against Islam and “advertising” our religion - we are not in the middle ages. Religion does not dictate policy. Just like your scarf in the classroom - church & state are separate entities. Piercings etc are allowed (although not in all schools as you may think) because they are not a statement or symbol of religion. If there was a religion that mandated that people wear peircings to profess their faith you can be sure that piercings would not be allowed. A diverse and developed society needs to set boundries so that people in the educational system to not feel marginalised, isolated or different from others in the same system.
I wonder could a Christian woman go to school in an Islamic school in Saudi Arabia and wear a big cross on her chest… me thinks not somehow…
I am certainly not trying to advertise any religion. I am being practical and calling it like it is.
As for racial profiling - like I said - it is unfortunate but it is going to happen. When you have protesters (quite a few by the way) in London recently waving signs saying that the English 9/11 is on the way and calling for jihad it doesn’t do much for the PR case of Islam or muslims. These acts, unfairly as you said, brandish Islam and mulsim’s in general as the bad guy’s. Attitudes like that need to be routed out. You don’t see protests calling for Islam to be destroyed do you? Or for MORE troops to be sent to Iraq… connecting the dots here yet?
No one is saying that anyone are Angel’s here. “Bad deeds” are done by people of every religion… but you don’t usually get suicide videos or claims of these acts being committed in the name of their religion… you do however have muslims saying their acts are in the name of Islam… people are going to associate the two when this is done.
Wish I had more time to write my tirade! :o)
Later!
on April 28th, 2006 at 10:27 AM
I was busy at my work so didnt have to send you prompt answer,so would like to answer you once in detail.
Listen here Adnan - what has my name got to do with my opinions and your inclination to respond to them?
I dont prefer to get engaged in discussion with people who hide themselves.its like replying someone at wrong number and keep arguing.
Now… back to the issue at hand. You really have to drop this whole religious BS.
Why should I?if you feel sick then navigate away thats It?For u it migbt be boring for discussing religion but not for me.There is link by jew on my blog-Judah,He also likes to disucss about his religion and despite of differences in thoughts,i really respect this attribute of him.
When you become enlightened enough to realise that not all “Westerners” are crusading against Islam and “advertising” our religion -
so ppl over there are enlightened?funny,yeah they are when i see things like single mother in USA i feel they are very enlightened.But same modern society talks about *freedom fo speech* when draw cartoons but when someone says anything to jewish anti semitism belief,they forget every lecture for freedom and start cursing Iran.pretty Bullshit to me
Just like your scarf in the classroom .
WHen a girl or guy is freeto to wear cross locket and make tatoos of christian and jews sign,why re u bothered with scarf?NOw dont say ppl pver there dont wear religious marks.
because they are not a statement or symbol of religion.
read above what i said and make some research on your own.
I wonder could a Christian woman go to school in an Islamic school in Saudi Arabia and wear a big cross on her chest… me thinks not somehow…
I would surprise tht would I be allowed to say Azaan in Vetican city infront of popes and preist?growup,you have come up with a silliest example.Why you particularly disucces saudi arabia?why not my country Pakistan and other muslim countries?Here christians do wear cross,a guy at my office is a christian and offer wear christian cross locket.
even in Saudi,only makkah and madinah are banned for non-muslims other cities are open for non muslims and they work,pray and lead life over there.YOu need a better study about non-muslims life in muslim countries.
I am certainly not trying to advertise any religion. I am being practical and calling it like it is
no you are rather being hypothical because you completely ignore other side of the picture,you would never disucs extreemism in christianity,judaism and hinduism why because they are like your *associates*
reagrding issues like sucide bombers,misinterpetttion of jihad etc.I seriously thinkk that non-muslims are really naive that they believe what some one says in name f Islam?if i say that killing u and ur family is jihad so will not be u stupid enough to believe in me?I would rather studies sources and try to find someone to educate me rather blaming whole society.
ut you don’t usually get suicide videos or claims of these acts being committed in the name of their
Sucide mantra was started by Srilankans back in 80s but noone raised fingers on them.Why?Did you ever curse them?they killed Indian PM and their own in such attack.
A nun - in case you hadn’t noticed is not the whole of western womenhood…
its nt about west or east dude.A nun wears scarf coz shes devoted to religion.For you only nun could be religious rest of women can doany shit at all.For us all women are respectable than Authentic Religious women scholars.For us all women are respectable.We dont present women as a *bitch* who is used asa sex toy in your society.And as I said those who force women to wear scarf are not well aware of teachings itself.Islam is not name of compulsion at all but Islam is likeother religion,for me religion is like rules and regulations.When you are bound to follow ur country laws similarly religon bound us to follow law as well.U woont whine and argue with a police man when you violate law,will you?:>
What a rediculous comment to make avout someone driving a perfect car. Literary
u r hype,if you had read on top,i already mentioned tht these re not MY WORDS.whoever wrote,he used car as analogy so dont beat yourself,try to understand what the person wanted too say
on April 30th, 2006 at 11:12 AM
now jhon would not come back,right jhon?:>
beside tht,since u belong to my community that is computing,you may ask or suggest whatever you want.
on May 1st, 2006 at 10:35 PM
Interesting debate …..but I wish we muslims could understand and be able to explain the spiritual reasons for all these issues that the non-muslims see as an opression in the muslim world… no doubt there are injustices and double standards in the islamic world but then it happens in the west and asian countries also …..most of these issue are rather political but the reason there are codes of conduct for men and women in islam is so that they can lead fulfilling lives…..I am a women who stayed at home of her own choice because leaving my kids behind for climbing the corporate ladder seemed like a silly choice…but then there are women who choose to work or are forced to work because of the financial reasons…but believe u me they are not happy at end of the day…..a lot of them would deny it now….but biologicallly women were designed for a diffewrent purpose with different emotions…..west can claim to be the champion of women’s rights but how free women feel over there is rather obvious…..at 65 a women has to go for surguries to look younger because otherwise society would forget her and reject her ….if this is freedom …God save muslim women from such insecurities…..Islam just makes your life easier by helping you in making the right choice….otherwise you can do as you wish….throwing acid or whipping women is the same as raping or dishonoring them which is rampant in the civilised west…..it is because of ignorance, poverty and lack of contorl….Islam teaches you how to control your desires which may look like rightful choices but wil make your existance empty and meaningless….I wish muslims and non-muslims can start looking at the spritual reasons for the code of conduct given by islam…then you would not need a pschotherapist at the end of the day….
on May 2nd, 2006 at 9:52 AM
exactly saima,at one side these westerners feel proud about so called women’s freedom and on other hand they don’t say anything about “Single Mother” issue and other women abuse.Its all hypocricy and well all know that.Non-muslims think that we are so ignorant and backwards(as they think that muslims beeen living in villages and have no access to media) that they would not be aware of evil things in their own society.
Good for them,doesn’t bother me at all.
Thanks for visiting:>
on May 2nd, 2006 at 9:45 PM
Why should I?if you feel sick then navigate away thats It?For u it migbt be boring for discussing religion but not for me.There is link by jew on my blog-Judah,He also likes to disucss about his religion and despite of differences in thoughts,i really respect this attribute of him.
What has feeling sick got to do with this? My point about dropping the religious aspect is that most of these issues can be separated from religion and be called “human issues”.
so ppl over there are enlightened?funny,yeah they are when i see things like single mother in USA i feel they are very enlightened.But same modern society talks about *freedom fo speech* when draw cartoons but when someone says anything to jewish anti semitism belief,they forget every lecture for freedom and start cursing Iran.pretty Bullshit to me
Where did I say that all Westerners are enlightened? I only implied that you are not. Not that others are or are not. Also, you seem hung up on this single mother issue. Yes, it is unfotunate, there are many sides to the argument and it is probably another debate unto itself - agruments encompass such view points as - is the child better off in a family that stays together because they have to be; in an unhappy environment with parents who do not love each other. Or should they be forced by constitutional law to stay together?
What is state support like for single mothers in Pakistan by the way - are they helped out with housing, food, living expenses?
As for drawing cartoons, this could open a whole other can of worms… but I will say that if you look back a few hundred years in Islamic culture you will find depictions of Mohammad. As with the Christian church - many of the current “rules” are man made and relatively recently - just not in living memory! And you don’t have to look far to find charicatures of Christian figures or jewish figures in the modern day press either…
When a girl or guy is freeto to wear cross locket and make tatoos of christian and jews sign,why re u bothered with scarf?NOw dont say ppl pver there dont wear religious marks.
Because a scarf is an overt and visible symbol - a cross and a tatoo when underneath clothing are not.
I wonder could a Christian woman go to school in an Islamic school in Saudi Arabia and wear a big cross on her chest… me thinks not somehow…
I would surprise tht would I be allowed to say Azaan in Vetican city infront of popes and preist?growup,you have come up with a silliest example.Why you particularly disucces saudi arabia?why not my country Pakistan and other muslim countries?Here christians do wear cross,a guy at my office is a christian and offer wear christian cross locket.
Well surprised you may be but I can safely say that you would not be stopped from saying Azaan in vatican city. But that is like saying a Christian would not be allowed to profess their faith in front of Mecca. You would be allowed in the vatican city but it probably would not be very considerate :o)
Comparing the Vatican City to the whole of Saudi Arabia is not a comparable contrast - like I said - Mecca and Vatican city is a better point.
Comparing Saudi Arabia with say Ireland… is more comparable.. Ireland being a majority Christian Country - you would certainly be allowed to go and say the Azaan there as well as wear what you like.
Why do I choose Saudi Arabia - no particular reason - why not? Why in so many Muslim countries does it vary so much from country to country what one can and cannot do? You would like me to choose Pakistan as it shines a better or more acceptable light on the way you think people should lead their lives - why can all people in muslim countries lead life as you prefer in Pakistan?
I can go from the UK to Sweeden, from Greece to Portugal and still have the same basic rights.
That is why I chose Saudi. It illustrates a point.
even in Saudi,only makkah and madinah are banned for non-muslims other cities are open for non muslims and they work,pray and lead life over there.YOu need a better study about non-muslims life in muslim countries.
Do you think that the Vatican City is banned to Non-Christians?
no you are rather being hypothical because you completely ignore other side of the picture,you would never disucs extreemism in christianity,judaism and hinduism why because they are like your *associates*
My “associates” ? - and you think I should grow up! Don’t make me laugh - we are not all conspiring against you my friend - just like I don’t believe that all muslims are conspiring against others.
There is certainly extreemism in Christianity - I’m not disputing that.
reagrding issues like sucide bombers,misinterpetttion of jihad etc.I seriously thinkk that non-muslims are really naive that they believe what some one says in name f Islam?if i say that killing u and ur family is jihad so will not be u stupid enough to believe in me?I would rather studies sources and try to find someone to educate me rather blaming whole society.
You are just plain insencitive to emotions if you believe that people are just plain stupid to believe these jihadist rants in the name of Islam. People are human and fair enough yes… as you say… people can be stupid… Bush was re-elected wasn’t he! :o)
But don’t you think it is unfortunate and a real injustice that there are these people who are claiming murder in the name of your religion?
Sucide mantra was started by Srilankans back in 80s but noone raised fingers on them.Why?Did you ever curse them?they killed Indian PM and their own in such attack.
OK… point taken.. that was then… this is now… some people would like this billed as the clash of civilisations… they need to be put in their place and spanked on the ass and sent to bed without any dinner. :o)
A nun - in case you hadn’t noticed is not the whole of western womenhood…
itsnt about west or east dude.A nun wears scarf coz shes devoted to religion.For you only nun could be religious rest of women can doany shit at all.For us all women are respectable than Authentic Religious women scholars.For us all women are respectable.We dont present women as a *bitch* who is used asa sex toy in your society.And as I said those who force women to wear scarf are not well aware of teachings itself.Islam is not name of compulsion at all but Islam is likeother religion,for me religion is like rules and regulations.When you are bound to follow ur country laws similarly religon bound us to follow law as well.U woont whine and argue with a police man when you violate law,will you?:>
You can dress it up as you like - all women being respectable to you and all that - as far as I see it that is just being an apologist - it is opression plain and simple.
No you don’t whine with a policeman when you violate the law - hense the separation of Church and state - the states law should not be in conflict with religion law and religious law should have no part in state law.
u r hype,if you had read on top,i already mentioned tht these re not MY WORDS.whoever wrote,he used car as analogy so dont beat yourself,try to understand what the person wanted too say
It is you who chose to quote the ridiculous analogy in the first place - my point is - you could have chosen a better one to make your case!
Saima - I’m sorry i don’t have the time to respond fully to your comment at the moment but i will take one exception right now:
“throwing acid or whipping women is the same as raping or dishonoring them”
Raping or dishonoring women is against the LAW. In some muslim regims harsh punishments against women are state-supported. You will not find a government organising the rape of a woman. You will however, see governments stand by while some women are stoned to death for a “sin” they have commited in certain other countries.
Have a good evening all!
on May 3rd, 2006 at 10:52 AM
Jhon!
I knew that you would avoid to answer my questions.
My point about dropping the religious aspect is that most of these issues can be separated from religion and be called “human issues
we always try to drop it,we always try NOT to take it as a religious issue but when morons in your society label us “Terrorists* because we are muslims,when we are humilated at your airports due to presence of big beard,we are forced to think like that.Remember the Indian sikh case?you might not know but after few months of 9/11 when an Indian Sikh(they have big beard) reached to US,he was caught by officials and locked him up coz for them that person was *osama* like.When you have such shitty ppl around,you shouldnt raise fingers on others.
I only implied that you are not. Not that others are or are not
I am not enlightened because I am not beliving your fictitious stories.Get real.
In pakistan,there would be merely such concept and if you meant by girls raped/forcinated by guys then that is entirely other issue,Single Mother is NOT equivalent to brutal raped at all.In our society there is Field of specify father name while in yours,as i have heard by many people,FATHER field in birth form and others is OPTIONAL and you guys are helpless in that case.It all happened due to so called *freedom* in your society.If you visit Wiki(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_parent),3 out of 10 kids living in home of single parents.Why is like that?You guys always claimed yourseld more educated,liberal,enligtened and human lover.Why ppl in muslim countries who re really not much educated and englightened are not suffering from this issue?Its not because they are smart ass.Its because they are bound to follow religious laws and they have been made up to follow laws(Dont use ur wicked mind to think that muslims/non muslims are forced to follow ISLAMIC laws).Islamic covers laws for both muslims and non muslims and they are treated or should be treated accordingly.
as far as Muhammad(SAW)’s old sketches.I have seen that but that doesnt mean if some arseholes did bad in past ,should be done later as well.Islam dont promote sketching images of Muhamad(SAW) and God at all.If you get chance to read Ten Commandment,the 2nd law also restricts NOT to make images of religious icons.As far as recent riots and clashes,Yes i hate it when they burn things in name of Muhammad(SAW)and believe me I and my reliigon Islam dont support it either,those who did it are not different than that cartoonist.Between the editor of the magzine is an conservative Jew who alwyas had issue with muslims.Do makea read about it.
Because a scarf is an overt and visible symbol - a cross and a tatoo when underneath clothing are not.
haahaa,What are you talking about>do you really not know or you consider me ignorant?
Would you deny that christians and jews dont exhibit their RELIGIOUS sign??Even players!,ever got chance to watch WWE wrestling?that guy HHH exhibit Cross sign on his jacket and shorts and many many people including celebrites.What do u say about “WASHINGTON MONUMENT”?.Please bring some facts while debating.
I wonder could a Christian woman go to school in an Islamic school in Saudi Arabia and wear a big cross on her chest… me thinks not somehow…
you didnt answer my last question,for you saudia is the only country?First of all Chrisitans even VISIT mosques in different muslim countries around the world.Several christian/jews celebrities visited famous Masjids(mosques) around the world and for us,masjid is more important then any islamic school so when christians can visit mosques (with their own dress code) why not a school and since u r lacking to answer me about vatican,i would not argue you about this,vatican wont allow Muslims to say azaan or pray in Vatican,Make some reading pls.You talk about allowing muslims in vatican,they didnt even allow muslims to pray in former mosque which is now cathedral of Cordoba read news(http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/5-2-2004-53662.asp)
hehe and you re talking about christians in islamic institutes *grin*
Well surprised you may be but I can safely say that you would not be stopped from saying Azaan in vatican city..
Read above i already refuted your claim ,beside that Makkah for muslims is like Vatican for catholics and naturally for them our mosque is not *Holy* for prayin as for us their chruches are not compatible for islamic prayers.So keeping hypocricy aside,both wont go for it.
Why do I choose Saudi Arabia - no particular reason - why not?
No,u and other think tht saudia is a hub of muslim extreemism and ppl live here are truly backward and non-muslim haters,I gave you example of riyadh,the capital of Saudi,where thousands of non muslim are employed in different companies
My “associates” ? - and you think I should grow up! Don’t make me laugh
Here associates means who follow theory that islam and muslims are backward and not compatible with others.
You are just plain insencitive to emotions if you believe that people are just plain stupid to believe these jihadist rants in the name of Islam
I am not but yes you sure are lacking to grasp the news around you by your officals(I assume u r american).Wud u deny that west *Screwed* the concept of Jihad.How wud u refute it dear?they link EVERY evil thing with jihad while they dont have idea that in reality jihad is arabic word for the world *STRUGGLE*,they even take *FATWA* as death,which is pretty bullshit at all.West needs to be more educated and prepared while attacking on muslims and Islam.
But don’t you think it is unfortunate and a real injustice that there are these people who are claiming murder in the name of your religion
Sure it is,its with every religion,christianity,judasism,hinduism and what not?that christian guy bush invaed two countries in name of religion.Assholes are in every society.
OK… point taken.. that was then… this is now…
Why same theory is not applicable for muslims,some idiots attacked on WTC,its over why re we still abused and linked it up with those who were not muslims at all?hypocricy?hmm?
the states law should not be in conflict with religion law and religious law should have no part in state law.
Law is law my friend whether you label it country law or religious law.Both are imposed on all society.The main thing is that how thos sets of law are compatible with all races,culture and religions.Sepration of churcuh and state resulted things like Single mother and other evil things in ur society.There is no such crap in my society but yet every one is free to go masjid or club,upto him.
It is you who chose to quote the ridiculous analogy in the first place - my point is - you could have chosen a better one to make your case!
yes it was me who opted it but its not stupid anyway,its just you misunderstood it thats It.
In some muslim regims harsh punishments against women are state-supported.
Name one?
on May 4th, 2006 at 1:34 PM
we always try to drop it,we always try NOT to take it as a religious issue but when morons in your society label us “Terrorists* because we are muslims,when we are humilated at your airports due to presence of big beard,we are forced to think like that.Remember the Indian sikh case?you might not know but after few months of 9/11 when an Indian Sikh(they have big beard) reached to US,he was caught by officials and locked him up coz for them that person was *osama* like.When you have such shitty ppl around,you shouldnt raise fingers on others.
You might want to look above at your previous comments before you start branding others as labelling people. Another point - I can sight many instances of non-muslims being detained at airports - through personal experiences of delays I have had and through the media showing how strict airport “profiling” can be.
These people were non-muslims. It is an unfortunate sign of the times. I have been taken aside at airports for separate searching too. It happens and we are all safer for it.
I am not enlightened because I am not beliving your fictitious stories.Get real.
Fantastic answer - no doubt you burnt the midnight oil on that one.
In pakistan,there would be merely such concept and if you meant by girls raped/forcinated by guys then that is entirely other issue,Single Mother is NOT equivalent to brutal raped at all.In our society there is Field of specify father name while in yours,as i have heard by many people,FATHER field in birth form and others is OPTIONAL and you guys are helpless in that case.It all happened due to so called *freedom* in your society.If you visit Wiki(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_parent),3 out of 10 kids living in home of single parents.Why is like that?You guys always claimed yourseld more educated,liberal,enligtened and human lover.Why ppl in muslim countries who re really not much educated and englightened are not suffering from this issue?Its not because they are smart ass.Its because they are bound to follow religious laws and they have been made up to follow laws(Dont use ur wicked mind to think that muslims/non muslims are forced to follow ISLAMIC laws).Islamic covers laws for both muslims and non muslims and they are treated or should be treated accordingly.
OK - I think we are losing some of that in the language barrier but I certainly was not saying that girls being raped is akin to being raped - how you got that idea from what I wrote I don’t know. I am certainly not saying that a single parent family is good for a child. It is an unfortunate and sad reality of a free society. Democracy is never perfect. Those who think it is are fooling themselves. The beauty of Democracy is that it can be changed from the bottom up and society as a whole plays a big part in the direction a country takes.
You may not want to admit it but I can guarantee you that there are many unhappy Islamic families still together only because of religious law and societal taboo. You may not want to face this fact because you don’t see it. This has been played out in many other societies where, for example, divorce only became legal in recent years. People may not have recognised that the problem was as big as it was until it was acceptable for people to talk about it.
as far as Muhammad(SAW)’s old sketches.I have seen that but that doesnt mean if some arseholes did bad in past ,should be done later as well.Islam dont promote sketching images of Muhamad(SAW) and God at all.If you get chance to read Ten Commandment,the 2nd law also restricts NOT to make images of religious icons.As far as recent riots and clashes,Yes i hate it when they burn things in name of Muhammad(SAW)and believe me I and my reliigon Islam dont support it either,those who did it are not different than that cartoonist.Between the editor of the magzine is an conservative Jew who alwyas had issue with muslims.Do makea read about it.
You are calling a lot of people “arseholes” - just remember how interpretations change from one century to another and what you are told now is not always what others were told.
Look at them with an open mind.
http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/
Because a scarf is an overt and visible symbol - a cross and a tatoo when underneath clothing are not.
haahaa,What are you talking about>do you really not know or you consider me ignorant?
Would you deny that christians and jews dont exhibit their RELIGIOUS sign??Even players!,ever got chance to watch WWE wrestling?that guy HHH exhibit Cross sign on his jacket and shorts and many many people including celebrites.What do u say about “WASHINGTON MONUMENT”?.Please bring some facts while debating.
This discussion was centreing on state-sponsored schools - if they are inforcing separation of religion from these schools then the answer is yes - Jews and Christians are not allowed to wear overt sings of their religion. Everyone equal - ringing a bell here? Outside of school i.e. - WWE or Celebrities - that’s their own business in a free society.
I wonder could a Christian woman go to school in an Islamic school in Saudi Arabia and wear a big cross on her chest… me thinks not somehow…
you didnt answer my last question,for you saudia is the only country?First of all Chrisitans even VISIT mosques in different muslim countries around the world.Several christian/jews celebrities visited famous Masjids(mosques) around the world and for us,masjid is more important then any islamic school so when christians can visit mosques (with their own dress code) why not a school and since u r lacking to answer me about vatican,i would not argue you about this,vatican wont allow Muslims to say azaan or pray in Vatican,Make some reading pls.You talk about allowing muslims in vatican,they didnt even allow muslims to pray in former mosque which is now cathedral of Cordoba read news(http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/5-2-2004-53662.asp)
hehe and you re talking about christians in islamic institutes *grin*
OK - first of all - I said muslims would not be stopped from praying in “Vatican City”. This was in response to you wondering would muslims be allowed to pray in “Vatican City”.
The Vatican is not the “Vatican City”… it is however, part of “Vatican City”.
As for your (http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/5-2-2004-53662.asp) point. Allow me a quote from it which refutes one of your other questions - “He admitted Muslims had prayed in the Vatican but “they do not lay claim to it”". What’s that!?! Muslims praying in the Vatican!?! Shock Horror!
Why do I choose Saudi Arabia - no particular reason - why not?
No,u and other think tht saudia is a hub of muslim extreemism and ppl live here are truly backward and non-muslim haters,I gave you example of riyadh,the capital of Saudi,where thousands of non muslim are employed in different companies
If you were yo read further down in my answer i did qualify it with an expanded explanation of why Saudi Arabia - my answer wasn’t simply “Why not?”.
Also you said above - for you saudia is the only country?
Saudi Arabia is not the only country for me, it is one which is a case in point and my point about being able to move from one country to another in the Western World and having the same basic principals of freedom was in answer to your question of why I chose Saudi Arabia. It is one case in point which helps prove an argument. Why should I choose the best example of an islamic state and imply that is what you can expect from all other islamic states when you travel to them? Turkey might be an example of a better state. However, the point is it would vary from one Islamic Country to another. I am well aware of Saudi Arabia’s economic status. I have friends who have been there. This also remind me now that I have had a lady from Riyadh stay at my house, who by the way had to be chaparoned by her father wherever she went, had never been to the cinema in her life and was only allowed to ride her bike in her back yard. To buy “Western Music”, she had to travel to a neighbouring country. These were not her “choices”. Perhaps, as you say, it is Islamic law, protecting her respectablility and “helping” her to make the right choices. Stalin did the same for a lot of people on a grander scale. It smacks of autharitarianism to me!
And to finish up on this point about Saudi and non-muslims staying there from other companies - where do a lot of these people have to live - compounds! Why is that I wonder!?
My “associates” ? - and you think I should grow up! Don’t make me laugh
Here associates means who follow theory that islam and muslims are backward and not compatible with others.
There you go bunching people into one group and labelling them - just like you said you don’t like me doing!
You are just plain insencitive to emotions if you believe that people are just plain stupid to believe these jihadist rants in the name of Islam
I am not but yes you sure are lacking to grasp the news around you by your officals(I assume u r american).Wud u deny that west *Screwed* the concept of Jihad.How wud u refute it dear?they link EVERY evil thing with jihad while they dont have idea that in reality jihad is arabic word for the world *STRUGGLE*,they even take *FATWA* as death,which is pretty bullshit at all.West needs to be more educated and prepared while attacking on muslims and Islam.
Assuming anything is your first mistake. I am not American. So Jihad means struggle… great…. and this changes what exactly? And I am well aware that a FATWA is a religious edict… and I didn’t even have to google it! But label me uneducated if you like - you seem to be getting some great use out of that labelling machine of yours!
But don’t you think it is unfortunate and a real injustice that there are these people who are claiming murder in the name of your religion
Sure it is,its with every religion,christianity,judasism,hinduism and what not?that christian guy bush invaed two countries in name of religion.Assholes are in every society.
You don’t see Christians and Jews going around killing people in the name of religion. Don’t use Iraq as a way to make your point - Oh but the Zionist-Crusaders are pillaging our lands in Iraq…
You are underestimating the way the modern world works. That’s like saying if Hitler was Indian he invaded Europe in the name of religion. The only reason that the religious argument can’t be used against Hitler is becuase he was a Christian as well… and this is my point… just because Bush is one religion and Iraqis are another… it does not mean that he invaded Iraq in the name of religion.
You are underestimating geo-politics. He said he did it for Weapons of Mass Destruction… a lie I think we can both agree (and if it wasn’t a lie then they really are as inept as they look) … then it was regime change…. questionable if you ask me. What does it come down to - oil, money and security. Plain and simple.
OK… point taken.. that was then… this is now…
Why same theory is not applicable for muslims,some idiots attacked on WTC,its over why re we still abused and linked it up with those who were not muslims at all?hypocricy?hmm?
Like I said, it’s unfortunate… I am saying this is now because the wounds are still fresh and people are still going to be afraid for their safety. An unfortunate by-product of this is that innocent Muslims are type-cast.
the states law should not be in conflict with religion law and religious law should have no part in state law.
Law is law my friend whether you label it country law or religious law.Both are imposed on all society.The main thing is that how thos sets of law are compatible with all races,culture and religions.Sepration of churcuh and state resulted things like Single mother and other evil things in ur society.There is no such crap in my society but yet every one is free to go masjid or club,upto him.
See I think this is where you and I are going to differ entirely. Law is not law. State law is above religious law. And in a democratic society, this is how people are guaranteed equal rights - because they are not dictated to by laws made for people of another religion to what they are.
You can say “but what about muslims in schools with their scarfs - that is law made by people of another religion affecting muslims”…. it is law made probably by people of another religion but affecting people of all religions in that it attempts to remove religion from the daily lives of education so that all people in that system are treated equally, and appear equal in each others eyes.
It is you who chose to quote the ridiculous analogy in the first place - my point is - you could have chosen a better one to make your case!
yes it was me who opted it but its not stupid anyway,its just you misunderstood it thats It.
Once again - I think this is the language barrier - I see the point and understand it - it still makes it a ridiculous analogy to choose. Lets drop this one.
In some muslim regims harsh punishments against women are state-supported.
Name one?
Northern Nigeria
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2202111.stm
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2001/10/23/nigeri4117.htm
And some of these have only been spared after Human Rights groups created an outcry outside of Nigeria.
And an interesting one I read the other day about Somalia:
Some people may argue the rights and wrongs of this one but interesting none-the less regarding the way executions are carried out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4967108.stm
An interesting one as you liked to quote the wikipedia for single mothers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning
There are other examples that can be used like Iran and Afghanistan.
Later!
on May 4th, 2006 at 4:05 PM
i will shrink my response since its getting redundant that same questions being asked by you again and again.
Another point - I can sight many instances of non-muslims being detained at airports
are you really not understanding my point,you are comparing Normal flight delays with *special treatment* with a particular community?I once went in Saudia and it took lots of time at airport.So should i make it political?When i said that people from muslims treated are being treated *badly* at several airports of US and they have issued instructions for special *searches* of muslims,i meant that it all happened after WTC attack and yet going on.
Fantastic answer - no doubt you burnt the midnight oil on that one.
“fantasic answer for fantastic statments”
You may not want to admit it but I can guarantee you that there are many unhappy Islamic families still together only because of religious law and societal taboo. You may not want to face this fact because you don’t see it.
you ask me not to assume and you are sufferig in this yourself.
if there are 100 ppl in a town and 2 of them are NOT happy due to *certain* reasons(theirs own maybe),should we curse the law itself.Nobody could be happy 100% regardless of belif and society.Would you claim that 100% christians and jews are happy coz of their belief?I might be not comfortable but there would be reasons,I would just go out and blame the whole system itself.
the families you are talking about,you didnt clear why are they unhappy,if they are muslims in US,maybe they aint happy due to discrimination,Saima,the reader answered herself that how DOES she feel as a muslim woman,u urself generlise lots of thing and ask me not to pickup single instance and make stories.
divorce only became legal in recent years
Where?if you talk about Islam,Islam give full rights to a woman to leave her husband if shes not happy?what are you referring about?
You are calling a lot of people “arseholes” - just
I am loud and clear,Islam Doesnt allow making sketches of Muhammad and God ,just like Moses’ ten commandments disallow it,regardless its allowed by yours and other belief.Islam disallow it so it doesnt matter that millions of ppl did something or not.
This discussion was centreing on state-sponsored schools
Was it?:>
anyway,you wana say that non-muslims dont *wear* Cross signs and make tatoos of it and other religious marks?Think again because I personally have seen it.
The Vatican is not the “Vatican City”… it is however, part of “Vatican City”.
I am not too aware of geographical background,here vatican means where pope and others live and preach.
“He admitted Muslims had prayed in the Vatican but “they do not lay claim to it”". What’s that!?! Muslims praying in the Vatican!?! Shock Horror
*grin*
you didnt read the first line:
The Vatican will not allow Muslims to pray once more in the Mezquita, the former mosque that is now the cathedral of Cordoba
Offcourse they used to pray it but before church.
Turkey might be an example of a better state
Turkey will be good for you or other non muslims but its not islamic state at all neither i consider turkey an Islamic country where *muslims* ain’t aware that eating pork is not allowed in their religion and they are asked to eat coz it would bridge the gapbetween non-muslims and and muslims and the state where Moazan(the person who call azaan) dont give azaan in mosqques rather govt relay it in all mosques(whic is not Islamic anyway),if such restrictions make Turkish and Islamic state for you then keep considering it an Islamic state,turkey is good coz it follows wat *outsiders* want to be followed. Will you allow your people to follow Islamic laws and do what they do for sake of brotherhood and to make a good *christian/jewsish/whateve* country?Offcourse not!!if you are honest,you wont quit your roots.
the way had to be chaparoned by her father wherever she went, had never been to the cinema in her life and was only allowed to ride her bike in her back yard. To buy “Western Music
did you ask your friend that non-muslims are forced or they aint used to go cinema?
-2nd thing you have beeb constantly talking abot saudia,tell me why al-jazeera news are banned in US,US is *free* country why re they doing it?why did Bush introduce law to *spy* american citizens?is it happening in any muslim country?interfering in personal lives,its said its all due to security,why its happenening?if you find answers of these,u would be a bit compatible to get me.
the issue of music,cinema etc.Islam doesnt allow music or cinema things ,since Saudia is considered a *true* islamic country follow islamic laws,there would be reason that such shops wouldnt be there but I personally know there are shops in riyadh,I dont know where you friend *lives* in saudia:>
if I assume that Music is not avaialable in Saudia,so its not something backward atall.Every place has its rules and regulations,ppl in military zones are aksed to follow military rules,for sake of their trainingm,they face toughest exercise,why do they face it?is it Not cruel?
the thing which hurts about saudia that dictators rulers who are slaves of Us andother non muslims countries and follow what they ask them.Islam itself is not backward,nobody die if not listening music,what is music?an entertainment or its said food of souls.We have alternative,Nasheeds,naat which i personally feel infinite times better than that *music*.
the cinema in her life and was only allowed to ride her bike in her back yard
its personal issue not related with Saudia or Islam. And as I said if you actually visit Riyadh then you wil have idea,sitting in some remote areas and making claims is not some right thing anyway.The imageyou drew about saudia,it gives impression that even non-muslims went for namaz and other islamic things in Saudia *grin*.
. So Jihad means struggle… great…. and this changes what exactly?
Everything if you actually go in details.You recieved misInterpretered meaning of Jihad that is Holy war,and if you honestly make a research about it and read verses,you would surely cruse those *socalled muslims* who preach jihad in wrong way. *kill the infiedels*-that is commonly referred by no muslims from Quran and its so twisted by Non-muslims,associate it that Quran asks to kill every Infiedel,but if you read the entire verse,the verse talking about Battle field and in battle field you actually kill your *enemies*.
you seem to be getting some great use out of that labelling machine of yours
you are seeing your refelection ine me:>
You don’t see Christians and Jews going around killing people in the name of religion.
Really?do you wana say that 2000/3000 years old history of jews and chiristians doesnt have any instance of killing in name of religion?are you sure? :>
Don’t use Iraq as a way to make your point
Why not??????
Hitler is becuase he was a Christian as well…
did jews steal his gf that he got mad at all jews?
just because Bush is one religion and Iraqis are another..
hahaha,pampering your people again,why doesnt same analogy fit for Talibans?
You are underestimating geo-politics. He said he did it for Weapons of Mass Destruction
that was for people like you so they believe in it,remember how excited and emptional bush was after WTC attack tht he used the word Crusadors?For bush those who pray 5 times a a day and have mark of prayers on their foreheads are terrorists.i thnk i did mistake to refer bush,hes really not worthy at all
An unfortunate by-product of this is that innocent Muslims are type-cast
as I said islam dont preach sucide and those who link it up with islam are idiots,Islam consider sucide a Big Sin doyou know tht?if someone use *sin* as *good*,it it Islam’s fault?
State law is above religious law.
yes,I see here that you are not aware of Islamic laws,religions like christianity and judasism were sent for a group of people(Children of Israel) in Arab land,so their book ,therefire it wouldnt have covered rights of other religon people,if you go thru Quran its entirely different than previous books,only 30% i thnk discuss about Islamic prayers and rest is about human values,i am not saying coz I have read it,anyone who read it with honestly can understand tht Quran is like a Guide which talks about different field of life.
Back to your point,as Isaid,u label it state law or religon law,it will still be caled LAW,your religious law were not rixch enough to cover rights of others ppl so you introduced your laws as *state laws* to cover the things not mentioned in bible.Quran covers both state and religion laws in a single book.As i said unless you actually study quran,you would keep comming up with such questions again and again.
Name one?
Northern Nigeria
So is India?Satti is considered a state custom of India in which a widow is burnt live with deadbody of her hubby,does it mean its a religious issue?
i read about somalia,again,its all about misinterpetition,look if i rape non muslim woman and ask he to wear an scarf with a verse,will you call it that tis an *Islamic law*?
An interesting one as you liked to quote the wikipedia for single mothers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning
Again,wrong comparision,Single mother issie is coz of NOT following religious laws,i never said that christianty or judasim supports it,if some muslim country quit follow religion laws,believe me they would also have similar issue.Its all due to so called *freedom* from religion.
There are other examples that can be used like Iran and Afghanistan
at one side u curse me tht i am labelling and on other side u r not even misinterpetiting but also preaching about it.
BTW:I say talibans re better than current US based govt in Afghanistan,what do you say in reply;)
I am busy in projects,i wouldnt be regular to answer you.I would get back to you in this endless debat whenever i get time,till then keep visiting and u r a programmer so do give your valuavke comments.
on May 4th, 2006 at 4:06 PM
Zionism!,well make a visit to nkusa.org
on May 24th, 2006 at 2:44 AM
Salam!
Adnan I’m so agree with u. RIght know I’m in my college,reading from ur site and i wear scarf too, and even my proferssor asked me if I wear it because I like it or someone is forcing me too. (living in Canada) I told them that I wear it because I like wearing it. I’m impressed that a very young person like is that much concerned about religion. well u know they make fun of how we dress up right,,but when there was uncivilization, human were naked and than came civilize time when people started to cover themselve. well Adnan don’t u think that by covering our body, we are still civilize and these western counteries are becoming more uncivilized. True, history repeats.
keep up ur gud work,,take care and Allah Hafiz.
on May 24th, 2006 at 9:42 AM
dear Ms.Rabia
Thanks for giving your comments.First of all ,let me correct you that I am not very young,have completed 29 years on this earth.
Yes rabia i know that majority muslim families dont ask their daughters to wear scarf.I also know that most of women here in karachi or maybe in other parts of pakistan wear it for sake of protecting skin,while some use burqa and hijab for *evil* things too.
I am not so religious but we are tagged as fundamentalists and zealots when we talk about Islam.If jew and christian or someone else talk about it then they are said that they are preachig.Hypocricy you know.Issue is that they consider Islam is a sunday religion like christianity hence can’t be implemented in daily life,its not their fault,their bible doesnt discuss every issue faced by human on earth,thatswhy they came up with concept of sepration of church from state.
Do visit my very latest post about Nina Shea’s article.
on September 29th, 2006 at 2:00 PM
Salaamualaikum to all my brave brothers around the world brothers its time for war its time for jihaad on the kufaars lets get together and build the army to have peace and freedom to practice our religion HAYAA ALL JIHAAD
BROTHER FAISAL
on October 1st, 2006 at 10:31 AM
Beard Issue - everyone with a beard is mistrusted , even hindus and sardars coz it looks like they are trying to hide something. All muslims don’t have a beard - look at the cricket team of india and pakistan for example ??
Women Issue - All muslim girls don’t wear burqua or hijab all the time also, it depends on the country and if they are with their family or some ocassion - here they come to college or work in jeans or suit. The only muslim girl with hijab that I saw was a foreign student from Iraq.
Car Driving - needs lots of practise and is very difficult on crowded streets with rickshaws and horses. No one can make out Muslims that easily unless they wear white cap which they don’t.
on October 1st, 2006 at 10:33 AM
i don’t know if you got my previous comment - there is a problem with blogger beta - i am cyberkitty at http://meowlife.blogspot.com - it was on beard in cricket teams